My son used to go to a school for nice, intelligent, middle-class boys.
All approaching puberty.
One day we had one of those conversations that sons and dads have.
It was a similar situation to the one The Who sing about in “Pictures Of Lilly”.
So, I went into the office and asked Yvonne, my PA, if she could pop over to the newsagent.
I said I needed copies of Playboy, Men Only, Hustler, and anything else she could find on the top shelf.
Yvonne asked why I couldn’t go and get them myself.
It was a fair question.
The truth is our offices were in Soho.
And I didn’t want to join all the other blokes leafing through porn mags.
So Yvonne, being a good sport, eventually went and got them for me.
I took them home and gave them to my son.
I said, “Put these where Mum, Grandma, or Carol (the cleaning lady) can’t find them.”
And that was that.
I thought.
A month or so later I got a package in the post.
I opened it up and it was all the porn mags.
Plus a letter from my son’s headmaster.
It said, “One of our teachers saw a large crowd of boys in the playground, gathered around your son.
Upon approaching them he discovered your son was showing the boys the pictures in these magazines.
He asked your son where he acquired them and your son told him they were yours.
Magazines like these are not allowed in school, so we thought you might like to have them back.”
To get himself out of trouble, my own son’s grassed me up.
Now what happens on next parent’s day?
Every teacher will think I’ve got a massive stash of porn mags at home.
I avoided the embarrassment of buying the mags, but this is now much worse.
It’s the equivalent of the argument I always have with Gordon.
About whether we should show our ads to anyone else or not.
Gordon is an art director, so he doesn’t trust anyone.
He wouldn’t even show the ads to me if he had the choice.
He just wants to run the ads before anyone can interfere with them.
I feel the other way.
I want to show the ads to everyone before they run.
That way, if there are any problems, we’ll know about them.
And we can fix them.
We can have all the arguments internally.
If there’s a mistake or problem, we’ll find out before the ad runs.
That’s got to be better than finding it’s wrong after the ad’s run, and everyone outside the agency has seen it.
Then it’s too late to do anything about it.
Then it really is embarrassing.
That’s why I think it makes sense to ask everyone else about your ads.
Literally everyone.
From the office cleaner upward.
With one proviso.
Everyone who doesn’t work on the account.
Planners, account men, production, studio, media, secretaries.
Anyone who doesn’t know the brief.
So they don’t know what the ad’s supposed to say.
They can judge it like the man, or woman, in the street.
They judge whether they’d stop and look at it, whether they’d remember it, whether it’s interesting.
The account man, or planner, who wrote the brief can’t judge that.
They’re too involved.
They know what the brief says, so they’re looking for that.
They’re not looking for impact, involvement, memorability.
So they can’t judge the ad from the consumer’s POV.
There’s another great thing about asking people who don’t work on the account what they think of your ads.
You don’t have to listen to them.
Unless you think they’re right.
You haven’t got that option with the people who work on the account.
If they’ve got an opinion they’re going to fight for it.
So I always ask people who don’t know the brief.
Then I can decide what to do.
I want that information, so I’ve got the option.
I’d much rather be embarrassed inside the agency than outside.
RSS Feed
Twitter
Email
I wouldn’t say that we’re not looking for impact/involvement/memorability, just that they are part of a group of things!
Also, I see evidence that the brief to your son was a bit flawed, you should have included teachers in the list to hide from!!
> Though overall I agree with the sentiment.
couldn’t agree more dave. i always do that if i have the time. it invariably sharpens the work. just hearing yourself sell the work (which is what you’re doing) is a good thing. you unconsciously add things to make it sound better that make it better.
This “Pictures of Lily” thing might need explanation to those in other parts o the world. (Not being smug but I read about it in the Rolling Stones Album Guide.) This thing about showing ads to others, I’m not so sure, Dave. I kind of think only show it to people you respect. Because some people are liable to make dumb comments and get all worked up if their POVs are not acted upon.
Great blog - you make some great points that seem common in many businesses re feedback and also that feedback can be helpful however frustrating, you are dead right some people can handle it and others cant. It sometimes becomes about a person rather than about the problem. I wonder if yours and Gordon’s opinion differ around solicited and un-solicited advice.
–
I don’t know you or Gordon so I don’t know the answer and guessing has landed me in more trouble than I care to mention.
–
You solicit feedback and so have to take it on the chin, Gordon does not so all feedback becomes un-solicited. Un solicited advice is frustrating and tedious.
–
The problem is when people (often agencies in my world) ask you for advice but don’t really want any.
–
We use a rule when giving feedback or advice - commend, commend then recommend. You always say two good things then you recommend changes. Would Gordon welcome more feed-back is there was a rule in place? Would people give better feedback if this was a rule they had to use.
–
The other rule is we don’t use the word “you” or “your” in recommend. So in your world you would not start with “your ad” or “you have..”. Simple start with “the” Ad or “the” work is..
–
It is interesting to watch how many people even when they know the rule break it - they can’t wait to be critical, because that is where they get the socks off, not helpful.
–
Was my advice solicited or un-solicited? oops
Two jokes - well just about
–
I love the line from a stand up who tell the story of sitting on a bus next to an OAP. She turns to him and says “I am 89 you know” - he replies “I didnt ask you know”
—
A bloke goes to get his haircut and the hairdresser says to him “How would you like your haircut” he replies “In complete fucking silence”
I don’t think I will read anything funnier today than:
“To get himself out of trouble, my own son’s grassed me up.”
That was genuinely hilarious (read in your voice in my head).
“Now what happens on next parent’s day?
Every teacher will think I’ve got a massive stash of porn mags at home.”
Was also very funny too.
lol! Brilliant as ever. Thanks for the smile too!
Reminds me of a friend at school, nicknamed ‘the porn king’.
He used to steal the magazines from newsagents, and then sell them on to our year. He’d quickly grab a couple from the top shelf and hide them under his coat.
Once he accidentally took a gay one. His dad, who was quite traditional, found it in a pile under his bed, and went crazy on him. (He wouldn’t believe that he’d accidentally stolen it, the theft and the porn being an irrelevancy of the sin).
After that we discovered the internet.
When you get criticism from people who are completely outside to it they always seem to pick fault at the part you hadn’t even considered, not what you’d been originally concerned about. This can either be incredibly frustrating (i.e. “I know the hands are out of proportion, but this is a scamp!” “What’s a scamp?”), but more often, very eye-opening.
(Captcha: ’seaside lunch’ oh i wish now its sunny)
http://ex-blank-page.blogspot.com/2010/03/in-reply-to-daves-great-posts-122-123.html
I used to grab people in the agency who didn’t work on the business to tell me what they took out of the ad. Sometimes they’d completely surprise me with their view. It’s so easy to get so close to an ad that obvious errors become invisible. A fresh eye always helps.
I remember this Polish guy in a small agency who did an ad and did not show anyone because he had been to college and had a masters degree in art. When it appeared he was mortified, so was the boss, and the client. It had a reversed-out coupon!
it was only meant as a joke
My mistake Toasty.
No it was my istake, i read the other post first where every story ended with someone getting punched in the face, then read this one and thought it would be funny if it ended that way too
“A fresh eye always helps”. True.
It’s similar to how I feel about reading something on a screen. I always find I need to print off copy and read it in real life to spot all the minor errors.
hey old chum long time no speak anyway i was perusing the net and came across this… obviously your true passion http://www.davetrott.com/
you dark horse you
A slight digression: when I first read the bit that goes:
Yvonne asked why I couldn’t go and get them myself.
It was a fair question.
The truth is our offices were in Soho.
And I didn’t want to join all the other blokes leafing through porn mags.
I thought to myself: what’s so bad about a group of media types leafing through porn mags?
I had to read it twice to get it! Ah, how times change, eh?
Robin @ 12:52
I’m not being smug, but ‘pictures of Lily’ was by The Who, not the Rolling Stones. (Or was it a Rolling Stone Magazine album guide…?)
You may be looked down on by the teachers, but your son’s friends think you are the coolest dad in the world. Run with that. Use it while you can.
Rather poetic Captcha:
otherwise azure
John@659
Of course “PoL” is by The Who. I was talking of “The Rolling Stones Album Guide”. I don’t know if it’s by magazine people. But the Album Guide is like an encyclopaedia of album reviews. The one I have is more than 15 years old. I know they release updated versions, but don’t know how often they do it. For me, it’s a fast way to find out more about albums. Yes, I know the net also does reviews. Just that after a while, I kind of know which reviewer has the same taste as me.
My mum gets the final say on all my ads. And she’s brutal.
Sweet sweet ammunition.
Hi Rachel,
Children are good for that too because they say it as they see it.
There’s a great example of a brief that should not have left the agency before anything was produced. It’s on the Brand Republic website today. For me it highlights everything Dave has mentioned in this blog.
When I worked at the same place as Viv Walsh we used to pass each other in the corridor and communicate by our secret code called The order of The Black Hoo. If an ad ever became published that we were not happy with, we would place a hand over our face in silence as we passed each other to signify a state of mourning.