European language and Chinese language developed in a totally different way.
In the west, our start point was a spoken language.
We started with different sorts of sounds for different things.
Then these sounds became a spoken language: words.
And we made up visual symbols for the sounds.
The alphabet is 26 sound-symbols.
So we could write them down and you’d know what each word sounded like.
Whatever language we spoke, French, German, English, we could read each other’s sounds out loud.
Even though we didn’t have a clue what the words meant.
It’s exactly the opposite in Chinese.
Their written language is based not on sounds, but on pictures.
So the start point for the word ‘house’ is a picture of a house.
The start point for the word ‘bird’ is a picture of a bird.
Not the sound for ‘house’ or ‘bird’.
This means that although the Chinese have many spoken languages (Cantonese, Hakka, Hokkein, Teochew) they only have one written language.
So they can write to each other even when they can’t talk to each other.
Because their written language is based on pictures not sounds.
Very interesting.
So what does it all have to do with us?
Semiotics.
The study of language.
Language is communication, and that’s our job.
And communication isn’t just words.
Apparently, only 25% of what we communicate is verbal.
And yet we act as if words are all there is.
Look at the job title: copywriter.
And yet, on average, only 5% of people who turn the page read the headline.
And 5% of people who read the headline read the copy.
So the job title ‘communicator’ would make more sense than ‘copywriter’.
By understanding the different ways in which people communicate we’re studying basic semiotics.
This means we’re not just stuck with words anymore.
There are more effective ways to get things into people’s heads.
Some time ago I saw a press campaign that opened my eyes.
Because it changed the rules.
It was done in the UK, but it communicated the Chinese way.
Using pictures as language, not words.
It was for Land Rover.
It was done, I think, by Malcolm Gaskin and Neil Patterson.
And it had a picture of the Land Rover, diagonally across the page, on a 45 degrees hill.
Plus two headlines, one across the bottom of the ad, and one running down the side.
The headline across the bottom said, “Is this a Land Rover going uphill forwards?”
(Then you turned the ad on its side)
The other headline said, “Or a Land Rover going uphill backwards?”
Very nice ad, but that wasn’t the brilliant part.
The absolutely brilliant part for me was the body copy.
There wasn’t any.
No words, just symbols, all around the outside borders.
All the information had been done as little icons.
So I got each point, fast and simple: 4 Wheel-Drive, 10 cwt Load, Differential-Lock, Winch, etc.
Each point was as easy to read as a road sign.
And road signs are the purest form of visual communication.
Because they have to be instantly understood by everyone, whatever language they speak.
And, of course, road signs are perfect for talking to drivers.
The people who buy Land Rovers.
I would have given that campaign the Gold award for body copy.
Simply because it changed the rules.
It wasn’t locked into the usual big black impenetrable block of words.
It was communication in a totally fresh way.
And that’s what made it really creative.
If people don’t read copy, let’s do something different.
Don’t just keep doing what doesn’t work.
Sure we have to get the information across, but that doesn’t have to mean words.
Creativity isn’t just about looking for new things.
It’s looking for new ways of using things.
And some of those things, like the Chinese language, may be thousands of years old.
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Dave
As much as I admire symbols representing communication, isn’t it a bit archaic? Surely the best world is one with words and pictures.
http://inter.scoutnet.org/cgi-bin/semanim?font=font0&text=great+post+by+the+way
Nice link John.
Mind you, semaphore is symbols for letters, which are symbols for sounds, so that’s visual communication laid on top of sound based communication.
I liked the idea of going back to where language started and seeing what could be different if we tried pure visual communication instead.
Like Gaz’s ad did.
Mind you, that could also be because he’s a Geordie and can’t spell.
: - )
Jumping off symbol related work. I love the observations of fellow Mancunian Karl Pilkington
on cave paintings.
Ricky Gervais (RG): The earliest art, which we call cave paintings, they date back [to] between 30,000 and 10,000 years BC.
Karl Pilkington (KP): But they always did the same thing. It was always a yak.
RG: Yeah, but they drew what they saw. I love the fact that 30,000 years ago they’re being criticised for being a bit literal.
KP: But surely if all you ever see when you step out of the cave is a yak, do summat different on the wall for when you get in. Why is it always a yak on every wall?
RG: Is it always a yak?
KP: It’s always a yak. Tony Robinson, whenever you see him digging around, it’s like - oh hold up everyone, get the brush, what’s this what’s this? It’s always a yak, yet they pretend they’re interested.
Apparently, a Chinese typist is really fast if he or she can do 9 words a minute.
Does the practicality of universal communication trump the speed of execution?
Probably.
And what does the picture of boredom look like? Or temerity?
There are emoticons that can cover just about any feeling or emotion you want to express. As an example, surprise or shock is often indicated by an emoticon that displays wide-open eyes and a round mouth. Anger may be conveyed by an emoticon that is red rather than yellow, and features a grimace. Love or cordial feelings are often expressed by the use of an emoticon that features a beating red heart. There are even emoticons that can convey boredom, excitement, wild laughter, and a sly wink. I’m sure a blatant disregard for danger could be symbolised too. Anyone?
I didn’t mean the Chinese system was better than ours.
I just meant it was different, and we should try different things.
Just to jog us out of our rut.
Maybe our system is the best one, but we shouldn’t get complacent.
If we assume what we’ve got is the all-time best and can’t be improved we end up with a set of rules and a dead language.
Like Greek, Latin, or French.
George Orwell said the reason English had taken over the world was that it is constantly being refreshed from below, by slang.
People take it on board, change it, make it their own.
Like Pidgin, or Singlish, or Patois.
Then every year the OED changes to include whatever’s new.
Whereas in France they have a government department protecting the language and stopping people doing that.
For 200 years French was the international language.
Not anymore. The world changed, and the language didn’t.
Some experts believe as many as 10,000 languages were once spoken around the world. Today around 6,000 languages remain, and that number could be reduced to 3,000 in the next hundred years. Maybe with everything merging we will all gravitate to chav speak to communicate innit. ; - )
I am a copywriter. I love words. But a picture’s worth a thousand words. So I love pictures more. Surely the best way to say something is as succinctly as possible. With just a visual. No words. So even though I’m a writer I think visually. But if it can’t be said visually then the words must be as arresting as a great visual. Then you don’t need a picture. See the late, great Economist campaign.
Hi Dave,
This article may be of interest to you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7910075.stm
I saw an example of what your talking about dave a while ago and thought it was a great idea. It was for Honda, think it was when the new Jazz came out, but they rolled it out over all there print work. Just the use of symbols to tell you about the things the car has. Kind of like Application on an iphone, easy and usually simple to understand, or your great example of road signs! Genius idea really. Well spotted and another great post!
Did you see these dave? Think they’re from New York, some of my favourite print ad’s
http://www.netzkobold.com/uploads/pictures/42below_cliparts_total.jpg
Symbols, music and an accidental cannon:
http://ex-blank-page.blogspot.com/2009/02/in-reply-to-daves-great-posts-12.html
Guy.
Very interesting article.
At school, my teachers used to get us to read comics just so we were reading.
As they say in the article, any reading is beneficial to literacy.
I saw a really good student campaign recently, where they’d printed large messages in text-speak on the kerb, to make kids, who were crossing the street while on their mobile, aware of the danger.
Liam.
Very funny ad, see that’s another way to communicate without words. Really stands out, too.
Hi Dave,
Glad you like the article.
My Dad’s an avid reader and he always used to despair when he asked me what I was reading and I replied: The Beano.
(Just to clarify, I was about 7 at the time, I read proper books now).
A picture is worth a thousands words.
But i’ve never seen one picture that can explain the complex idea of those seven words.
Ironically.
I found traditional Chinese writing particularly fascinates me as each word is meaningful. For example, the verb bored is written as a combination of two Chinese components “Door” and “Heart”.
“Bored” in Chinese can be visualized as “a heart being trapped within a door”, hence a soul(”heart”) is being trapped indoor (”door”)
It was interesting to read this post as I get to learn ways to think differently, in terms of thinking from a western point of view as well as the Chinese point of view.
Dave, what do you think of d&ad not giving any copywriting awards years back?
The argument was, nothing was good enough, not even for a book entry,
I reckon it’s bollocks.
It trivialized copy.
I mean, if we go by the ‘we think nothing’s good enough’, then the same should apply to other categories.
Thanks.
Robin,
Adam Smith said,
“There are some very noble and beautiful arts, in which the degree of excellence can be determined only by a certain nicety of taste, of which the decisions, however, appear always, in some measure, uncertain.
There are others, in which the success admits, either of clear demonstration, or very satisfactory proof.
Among the candidates for excellence in those different arts, the anxiety about the public opinion is always much greater in the former than in the latter.”
That’s along way of saying you can argue about opinion but not about fact.
And awards are about opinions, not facts.
BBC News coming up trumps again:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7911645.stm
Robin, nothing ever is good enough. Good is the enemy of great.
Chinese : ?? ?? ?
English : One, Two, Three
Oh, Your blog can’t show chinese charactor… Hmmm
Hi G,
That’s my point.
The same 4 Chinese characters for Happy New Year can be read by all Chinese everywhere.
And in Cantonese they would say “Kong Hee Fat Choy” but in Teochew they would say “Sing Sia Joo Ee”.
Same written language, totally different spoken languages.
And in our system we can reprint the sounds of the spoken language, but not know what they mean.
that’s why body language is our mother and father over here
Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Wo ai zhongguo ren.
Ni hao ma; ni hao ma; ni hao ma; zaijien!
Robbie, that’s brilliant.
Dialects and accents not too dissimilar here Dave?
Hi John,
I used to think an accent was a dialect.
A French teacher explained the difference to me.
We have different accents all over the UK, but the same written and spoken language.
So: long ‘A’ down south, short ‘A’ up north.
Long ‘U’ up north, short ‘U’ down south.
But the words, written or spoken, are still the same.
A dialect (apparently) is a different spoken language grown from a common base language.
So eventually accents could mutate into dialects presumably, which is why English is a mongrel language. part French, part German, part Latin, etc.
At the risk of a yellow card.
If good is enemy of the great then we shouldn’t have award shows.
For me, I go with the old Tim Delaney approach - awards about stimulating, not congratulating.
Hi Ben,
“I love Chinese people” x 3
“How are you?” x 3
“Goodbye”
The interesting thing is I called my wife but, as it’s not her dialect (Teochew), she had to ask the guy she works with (Manadarin) to translate.
This is valled Pin Yin incidentally.
Chinese sounds translated into western writing.
One could argue that there are to many or to much mediocrity gaining credit or certainly to many categories, Robin.
When I was in Hong Kong I ’spoke’ Cantona - scoring a beauty in Victoria Park, Dave.
Hi all. I’m really interested in this subject, as I’ve been learning Cantonese for about 7 years (spoken only, not written). The first thing that amazed me when I began was the thing Dave mentioned about different spoken languages being the same when written. Many of my wife’s family in Hong Kong and China do a lot of business by fax – they can’t understand each other on the phone, but they can through written faxes.
The second thing I’d mention is that while the written language being based on pictograms makes it sound really easy to learn/understand, it’s not! Like I say, I’ve been learning Cantonese for years and I can basically write/understand about five ‘words’. But you can learn spoken Cantonese relatively quickly through Pin Yin/Yale Romanisation (although the tough thing is that it’s still pretty tough to get your head around the tones).
Finally, one of the most interesting things I’ve found is how and why Chinese kids are so much better than Western kids at maths. It’s because the Chinese counting system is so much easier. The numbers are much shorter and there are basically only numbers 1 to 10. No equivalent to things like ‘eleven’ ‘twelve’, ‘thirty-seven’ etc. So 11= ten-one, 12 = ten-two, 37=three-ten-seven. It’s much easier for Chinese kids to understand and work with, so they get a massive advantage from the off.
I never knew that about maths, Ant, another language entirely. I may now have to have a lie down as my head hurts.
Knowing about the language of saving face. I stared down this kid on Shek O beach, Hong Kong, because he dropped some litter. The power I felt as it got him to pick up the litter. Having said that I was then worried that he would come back with his Kung Fu mates!
I don’t know if it’s only my impression, but I think music is strongly influenced by language. Even instrumental music. And Chinese music is a very good example. Just pay attention to the instrumental intonation – it really sounds like… Chinese, smooth legato phrasing.
Afro Jazz is another good example – the beat (in threes) is exactly the one you find in all the indigenous African languages.
John - on the numbers thing, it makes life realy easy as a student because once you’ve learn numbers 1-10, you’ve know (almost) any number. And you can get really simple conversations going in shops by asking ‘how much is that?” and understanding the answer!
Hi Anca,
I don’t know about music, but I know all the people I know who learned Chinese as a first language have trouble understanding the way westerners speak: running all the syllables together.
They need to seperate the syllables off (SEP-PER-RATE THE SYLL-LAB-LES OFF) to understand them. Which I guess is why they sound the way they do when they speak English.
I’m going to use that sneaky maths tactic, Ant, on my nipper.
And that’s another characteristic you also find in their music, Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZi1NHyL8I0
Smooth modulation (the abundance of legatos I was talking about) inside short fragments (like syllables) separated by clear, long pauses.
Could be interesting to have a look at some Chinese music scores. And even more interesting to talk to a native Chinese musician.
Hallo all,
I’m Chinese but English was my first language in school. (Mandarin’s my second.)
Chinese is much harder to learn.
As Dave says, it’s sometimes hard to know what the word is.
There’s a Mandarin saying,
“you bian du bian.”
Which means, if there’s a side, read the side.
“mei bian du zong jian”
If there are no sides, read the middle.
If not, just make it up.
I’m horrible with net stuff.
But I’ve heard Chinese music that sounds Western.
And I recall an English hymn sounding Chinese - it’s Scottish.
Anyway, if anyone would like samples of Chinese music, I’ll try and provide.
By the way, there’s something now called Canto-pop - Cantonese pop and it is big in Hong Kong.
Last thing.
The Chinese invented the compass.
Yet, for some reason, in Chinese, the compass is called the ‘pointing south needle’. (zhi nan zhen - zhi - is point, nan is south.)
Would love to see an old Chinese compass.
I tried looking for answers on the net and books, but no joy.
Xie - thanks.
That Chinese I put up earlier is from the Monty Python song ‘I like Chinese’. Aside from a reference to shortness, it’s quite a nice bit of Eric Idle, up there with the drunken philosophers. You can find both on YouTube.
I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude.
Think of the many things they’ve done to impress.
There’s Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.
So I like Chinese.
I like Chinese.
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.
Etc.
Hi Dave, my home town is in TeoChew, and I grew up in a city next to HongKong called Shenzhen, so I speak Mandarin, Cantonese and TeoChew.
I am not so sure Happy new year in TeoChew is Sing Sia Joo Ee. I can’t spell it in English because sounds wired, but in Chinese letter is Happy new year, like what you said.
Hi G.
It’s hard to write the different tones in the western alphabet, and my wife always says I have a tin ear for them.
That’s the way it always sounded to me, but it could just be my cockney accent.
Like every Englishman, all I really need to know is ‘please’ (Dau Lung) ‘thank you’ (Gum Sia) and ‘excuse me’ (Tor Chair).
But I may be wrong because in Singapore they use a mix of Teochew, Cantonese and Malay.
Ian, you’re right, now everything’s a mixture of influences, just like the population is more and more a mixture of different cultures pretty much everywhere. So of course it would be nice if you could provide traditional Chinese music. As you can see, anything can lead to anything.
(Dave, I’ve just seen Kim Ki-duk’s “Dream (Bimong)”. Another great example of perfect direction and excellent casting. And now I’ll obviously revisit his entire collection. “3-Iron (Bin-jip)” is still my favourite.)
I remember the MTR announcement, when getting on/leaving the train sounding like ‘Ten Seals Some Simon’. Does it mean ‘Mind the Gap’? It couldn’t possibly mean ‘Let the passengers get off the train first’. Does anyone know?
Dave – further to your point about Chinese people having trouble understanding the way Westerners speak, I think much of it is to do with the construction of the English language. All the prepositions/connecting words etc complicate things for them – as they don’t exist in Chinese, which is much more direct and simple. So for example, “I’m just going down to the shops” is “I-go-shops”. Or “Could you pass me the chilli sauce please?” is “you-pass-chilli-sauce-please.”
Not quite true.
Although they are very similar there are differences between types of written dialects and cantonese/mandarin.
Therefore while it is easy to learn a different dialect in writing, it is not simply a given.
Re: Ant.
A good example is exit.
The second square symbol is used for out (like a mouth), and the former means roughly go/way.
So exit is written as way out/go out.
Oh yeah, absolutely true, Rob. Nothing is ’simply a given’ with Chinese! Can you speak or write Cantonese or Mandarin, Rob?
Interesting point, Ant. I wonder how they feel about French — now THAT’s a complete prepositional disaster!
And by the way, I can’t imagine how difficult it is for English speakers to learn French.
It’s definitely ‘Ten Seals’ I can hear and it is the beginning of Please mind the gap. Shame my girlfriend fell down the gap. Mind you I put that down to jet lag as we did head out there for a long weekend once.
http://www.ushb.net/broadcast/index02.php
Sorry for going a little off track with the MTR link.
John, I know exactly what you mean.
One day I answered the door at my mother-in-law’s house and a guy said to me “Doosy da?”
I said, “Sorry, Ang Mo.” so he’d know I didn’t speak the language.
But he just repeated “Doosy da?” and went back to his van.
Then with another guy he brought a sofa into the house.
It turned out he was saying “Two seater?”
With my vowel pronunciation when I first came to London I had a hard time ordering Rum and Coke. Eventually latched onto ordering Ram an Cowke.
I know what you mean.
To New Yorkers cockneys sound like Australians.
I went in a coffee shop to make a phone call.
In my head I’m asking for a dime, but it doesn’t sound like that to the guy behind the counter.
He’s trying to work out what I’m saying, “You want a duy-yum?”
I repeated it, he said “You want a daw-wum?”
Eventually I said “A ten cent coin?”
He said, “Oh you want a dahm, why didn’t you say so?”
In my Cantonese class I had a similar but more embarrassing situation. We were learning a new phrase - “What a coincidence!” for use when you unexpectedly bump into someone you know. The conversation drill was something like:
Q: “What a coincidence! What are you doing here?”
A:”I’m buying some oranges for my mum.”
Our teacher (whose English was brilliant for someone who learned it as a second language but he wouldn’t be getting a job on Radio 4) was a very animated Chinese chap. He kicked off the drill with:
“James - I bum you in street. What you say?”
James looked embarrassed.
Charles (our teacher) moved on: “Toby! I bum you in street! What you say?”
Toby sniggered.
Charles moved onto me.
“Ant. I bum you in street! What you say?”
I managed to get the conversation drill going, but the eternal 13-year old inside me had to struggle desperately not to giggle.
Very funny Ant.
Mind you even in New York I had that problem.
When I first got there, I asked one of the guys at college if I could bum a fag.
He said, “Do what you like buddy.” and walked away.
Ant - Sadly not, but my wife’s family are from HK, so I am slowly picking up the odd word or two!
I can’t remember the page, but there’s an entire ad based on these mispronunciations in the copy section of D&AD 1999. It’s for some English school in Singapore and is very funny.
Rob - ah, I see…
Neih goh tai-tai hai juhng-goht yan! Hou-yeh!
Ant.
I know what you mean about speaking English with Chinese sentence structure.
In a shopping mall I asked a sales assistant where the gents was.
She pointed and said, “This way can, this way also can.”
Ant: Mah Fan…!
i am Chinese. Though I am your fan, I have no idea what you are talking about here.
Rob. Ha ha. Absolutely!
PS. Rob - I hope your tai-tai doesn’t read that or you will be in deep s**t!
Dave
Heads up on cultural language.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/arts/design/19abroad.html
Just to show how limited by knowledge of Cantonese is:
What’s Tai Tai and why would they be annoyed?
I ocassionally introduce myself as Rob, but my Chinese name is Mah Fan.
Hi Rob,
My understanding is that ‘Tai Tai’ is what we would call ‘ladies who lunch’.
The nuns at my wife’s (Taoist) temple can’t pronounce my English name.
The nearest they can get is “Lay-Bit Teck-Lock”.
Ahh…
Well apparently my name in Chinese sounds like the word for carrot. So I am often affectionately (I hope) known at carrot boy. (I’m not even ginger!)
Hi Rob. Sorry to confuse you!
After your post, I said - “Your wife is Chinese - cool.” To which you said “mah fan”. Depends on tonal pronunciation, but ‘mah fan’ (usually hou mah-fan) is something like “pain in the arse”! Are you sure your wife’s family are not winding you up?! My brother-in-law is a gwei-loh (white Westerner) called Rob and my Chinese family call him ‘Loh-baht’ (the Cantonese word for ‘turnip’, sounds like Robert) or ‘Loh-baht-jay’ (turnip boy).
Tai-tai is more usually ‘wife’, but it can also have the meaning Dave described.
Haha, I was calling you Mah Fan for tying something far too complex for me to understand (I.e.: Anything…)!!
That’s something I often get called, that or Soy Gat. No, theres this weird mix between turnip and carrot that seems to happen. Mooli cake is described alternatively as carrot and turnip by people. Or Chinese carrot!
Isn’t Gwei Loh meant to be a bit of an insult from HK?!
Rob.
I think Gwei Loh is Cantonese for foreigner, and not in a complimentary way.
In Singapore they call us Ang Moh, which is short for Ang Moh Qui, meaning red-headed devil.
As my dad always said, ‘I don’t mind what you call me, as long as you don’t call me late for dinner.”
Yeah, I believed it to be a derogatory term for ex-pats. Have you travelled well then Dave?
My wife is Singaporean Chinese.
So I just learnt the essentials: I got her brothers to teach me the swear words.
Rob - ‘gwei loh’ is literally ‘white ghost’. Yeah, it’s sort of derogatory (a bit like the equivalent of ‘Chinky’), but Chinese people often use it in jest with no ill-feeling.
I made like a gwei loh and ghosted into the box to score the winner in Victoria Park once. Mind you that was the only time I ventured up field. It can get a tad humid in Hong Kong.
John.
Apparently Jonathan Pearce was commentating with Bobby Moore once and Bobby asked him if he played much football.
Pearce said he stopped playing because he couldn’t run, couldn’t head the ball, and never crossed the halfway line.
Bobby Moore said, “I made a career out of that.”
Dave,
You are a veritable font of knowledge.
John - Apparently my uncle captained an army team at the HK stadium while stationed there in the 50s.
Wotcha Rob. How’s it hanging on the dark side?
But its light here…
Hi John W!
Surely Lancashire is where there is light, Rob?
I thought you could have been the Dark Knight!
Well, I am in Manchester right now…
Ah Cottonopolis!