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	<title>Comments on: IF WE BELIEVE IN SELLING, WHY DON’T WE DO IT ?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/</link>
	<description>Creative thinking and critique from Dave Trott</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 02:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: robin</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11427</link>
		<dc:creator>robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11427</guid>
		<description>Conor, reckon it happens more so in Asia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conor, reckon it happens more so in Asia.</p>
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		<title>By: lagniappe</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11426</link>
		<dc:creator>lagniappe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11426</guid>
		<description>The days of selling ads to clients seems like ancient history. More and more clients won't be sold until focus groups approve the idea. Marketing Directors are too scared to make a decision on their own. They don't want the finger pointed at them when the ad doesn't do well so they let focus groups decide. That in itself wouldn't be a problem if the focus groups weren't full of "C" students.

There is more selling done inside an agency than outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The days of selling ads to clients seems like ancient history. More and more clients won&#8217;t be sold until focus groups approve the idea. Marketing Directors are too scared to make a decision on their own. They don&#8217;t want the finger pointed at them when the ad doesn&#8217;t do well so they let focus groups decide. That in itself wouldn&#8217;t be a problem if the focus groups weren&#8217;t full of &#8220;C&#8221; students.</p>
<p>There is more selling done inside an agency than outside.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor O'Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11425</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor O'Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11425</guid>
		<description>In my experience there are many people in creative departments who DON'T believe in selling. They find it dirty. A little sleazy perhaps. They actually get quite offended if you associate their precious creative work with selling. And sadly, many of these people go on to win awards for work that never ran, become creative directors because of these awards and then hire others just like them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience there are many people in creative departments who DON&#8217;T believe in selling. They find it dirty. A little sleazy perhaps. They actually get quite offended if you associate their precious creative work with selling. And sadly, many of these people go on to win awards for work that never ran, become creative directors because of these awards and then hire others just like them.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11424</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11424</guid>
		<description>Hallo Phil and Vic

Sorry, I meant a Japanese-owned agency in Singapore.
But I've had friends who worked in Japan.
All depends what you want.
One of the bigger Japanese agencies occupies 2 skyscrapers.
They have more than 500 copywriters.
So at any one time, it's a fair bet that the teams will have similar ideas.

I once pitched on a Japanese copier in Singapore.
The Japanese office insisted on sending a team over to help.
Yeah, sure.

Anyway, from Jap to Sin, they did 5 campaigns!
That scared the livin' daylights out of us.

So we asked them to show the work.
They proudly said, "Ok, the first concept uses ET to sell the copier, the 2nd has Don Johnson, the 3rd has Ava Gardner". You get the idea.

We said as politely as we could that what they had done was one idea with 5 celebs.

They disagreed even more politely.

You probably know this.
Many celebs are paied very handsomely to appear in TV spots than can only appear in Japan.

But it's not all bad.
Folks have done good stuff there.
Think TBWA did some great work for Volvo recently.
Dentsu did the safety pin Volvo.
And there was a Nissin Cup Noodle bit of cartoon that won a Grand Prix Lion.

Vik, could tell you more about Japan - maybe you email &lt;span class="mh-plaintext"&gt;vvc&lt;a href='http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01w8TZD6f9mQbaSgcxtXag5g==&amp;c=zfCar9t0xPKnHHMu1cHKVLYPaWhN5tuGq7zrAFDTWOI=' onclick="window.open('http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01w8TZD6f9mQbaSgcxtXag5g==&amp;c=zfCar9t0xPKnHHMu1cHKVLYPaWhN5tuGq7zrAFDTWOI=', '', 'toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=500,height=300'); return false;" title="Reveal this e-mail address"&gt;...&lt;/a&gt;@hotmail.com&lt;/span&gt;? Don't want to impose too much on Trott-san's blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallo Phil and Vic</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant a Japanese-owned agency in Singapore.<br />
But I&#8217;ve had friends who worked in Japan.<br />
All depends what you want.<br />
One of the bigger Japanese agencies occupies 2 skyscrapers.<br />
They have more than 500 copywriters.<br />
So at any one time, it&#8217;s a fair bet that the teams will have similar ideas.</p>
<p>I once pitched on a Japanese copier in Singapore.<br />
The Japanese office insisted on sending a team over to help.<br />
Yeah, sure.</p>
<p>Anyway, from Jap to Sin, they did 5 campaigns!<br />
That scared the livin&#8217; daylights out of us.</p>
<p>So we asked them to show the work.<br />
They proudly said, &#8220;Ok, the first concept uses ET to sell the copier, the 2nd has Don Johnson, the 3rd has Ava Gardner&#8221;. You get the idea.</p>
<p>We said as politely as we could that what they had done was one idea with 5 celebs.</p>
<p>They disagreed even more politely.</p>
<p>You probably know this.<br />
Many celebs are paied very handsomely to appear in TV spots than can only appear in Japan.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not all bad.<br />
Folks have done good stuff there.<br />
Think TBWA did some great work for Volvo recently.<br />
Dentsu did the safety pin Volvo.<br />
And there was a Nissin Cup Noodle bit of cartoon that won a Grand Prix Lion.</p>
<p>Vik, could tell you more about Japan - maybe you email <span class="mh-plaintext">vvc<a href='http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01w8TZD6f9mQbaSgcxtXag5g==&amp;c=zfCar9t0xPKnHHMu1cHKVLYPaWhN5tuGq7zrAFDTWOI=' onclick="window.open('http://mailhide.recaptcha.net/d?k=01w8TZD6f9mQbaSgcxtXag5g==&amp;c=zfCar9t0xPKnHHMu1cHKVLYPaWhN5tuGq7zrAFDTWOI=', '', 'toolbar=0,scrollbars=0,location=0,statusbar=0,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=500,height=300'); return false;" title="Reveal this e-mail address">&#8230;</a>@hotmail.com</span>? Don&#8217;t want to impose too much on Trott-san&#8217;s blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Bentos</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11423</link>
		<dc:creator>Bentos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11423</guid>
		<description>@Rachel "That’s exactly why there must be a reason for every colour and comma.."

I remember hitting something of a brick wall when I was at Art College needing to come up with a justification for everything. Why paint the sky blue rather than pink? Why paint the sky? Why paint? Why do anything? That type of thing.

Later when I was doing animation a tutor said to me "The best animation is the animation that gets done" and to basically get over myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rachel &#8220;That’s exactly why there must be a reason for every colour and comma..&#8221;</p>
<p>I remember hitting something of a brick wall when I was at Art College needing to come up with a justification for everything. Why paint the sky blue rather than pink? Why paint the sky? Why paint? Why do anything? That type of thing.</p>
<p>Later when I was doing animation a tutor said to me &#8220;The best animation is the animation that gets done&#8221; and to basically get over myself.</p>
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		<title>By: vik</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11422</link>
		<dc:creator>vik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11422</guid>
		<description>Robin,

I once wanted to get a scholaship to study at Tamabi but gave up after 3 years of trying. How is Japan in regards of advertising, culture etc?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>I once wanted to get a scholaship to study at Tamabi but gave up after 3 years of trying. How is Japan in regards of advertising, culture etc?</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11421</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11421</guid>
		<description>Robin.
I'd have been tempted to stay at the place with the 5 months bonus and the holiday to Hawaii.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin.<br />
I&#8217;d have been tempted to stay at the place with the 5 months bonus and the holiday to Hawaii.</p>
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		<title>By: robin</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11420</link>
		<dc:creator>robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11420</guid>
		<description>Hallo Rachel/Vic

Reminds me of a Japanese agency I was once at.
The clients pretty much bought whatever crap we showed them. And it was really crap.
MD wasn't much involved as most of the time, he was at the Jap Ass (Japanese Association as he called it).
Yet, the staff got at least 5 months bonus and company trips to Hawaii, Japan and London! (Not in the same year, of course.)
Think what great ads could be done if said agency had some suits and creatives with ambition.

At another Jap agency, the management insisted on hiring rich kids as suits.
The thinking was the 90210-type brats would introduce rich clients to the agency.
Never happened.
And these kids sucked.
They had little passion.
And firing them was pointless:
a. they didn't need the money.
b. they might sue the agency. (And why not? Some of these kid's personal income far exceeded the Agency's Group combined billings.)

What upsets me is, so many people want to get into advertising and don't get the chance.
Then we get people who do get the break and make nothing out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallo Rachel/Vic</p>
<p>Reminds me of a Japanese agency I was once at.<br />
The clients pretty much bought whatever crap we showed them. And it was really crap.<br />
MD wasn&#8217;t much involved as most of the time, he was at the Jap Ass (Japanese Association as he called it).<br />
Yet, the staff got at least 5 months bonus and company trips to Hawaii, Japan and London! (Not in the same year, of course.)<br />
Think what great ads could be done if said agency had some suits and creatives with ambition.</p>
<p>At another Jap agency, the management insisted on hiring rich kids as suits.<br />
The thinking was the 90210-type brats would introduce rich clients to the agency.<br />
Never happened.<br />
And these kids sucked.<br />
They had little passion.<br />
And firing them was pointless:<br />
a. they didn&#8217;t need the money.<br />
b. they might sue the agency. (And why not? Some of these kid&#8217;s personal income far exceeded the Agency&#8217;s Group combined billings.)</p>
<p>What upsets me is, so many people want to get into advertising and don&#8217;t get the chance.<br />
Then we get people who do get the break and make nothing out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11419</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11419</guid>
		<description>Thanks again Dave.
Trouble is, even the few people who've heard of Bernbach probably don't know who George Lois is.
(Heck, many people haven't even seen Charlie's "Fly" ad.)
So, re: your comment that if it ain't run, you can't send it to the awards doesn't really apply.
Definitely not here in the Far East, where an award show (or annual) is the first time a piece of work is seen.
Also explains why the Far East seldom wins awards for TV - TV being too costly to scam.

Have you read "The Cult of the Amateurs"? It's about 'how blogs, MySpace, YouTube, and the rest of today's user-generated media are destroying our economy, our culture, and our values'.
In the past, ad agencies came up with the work.
Now, with Macs, some clients think they can do a better job.
(What's frightening is, once a in while, they do actually create better work.)

So, these days, it ain't just selling an idea.
It's as much about convincing clients to leave the ads to agencies.
Instead of D-I-Y or consultants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again Dave.<br />
Trouble is, even the few people who&#8217;ve heard of Bernbach probably don&#8217;t know who George Lois is.<br />
(Heck, many people haven&#8217;t even seen Charlie&#8217;s &#8220;Fly&#8221; ad.)<br />
So, re: your comment that if it ain&#8217;t run, you can&#8217;t send it to the awards doesn&#8217;t really apply.<br />
Definitely not here in the Far East, where an award show (or annual) is the first time a piece of work is seen.<br />
Also explains why the Far East seldom wins awards for TV - TV being too costly to scam.</p>
<p>Have you read &#8220;The Cult of the Amateurs&#8221;? It&#8217;s about &#8216;how blogs, MySpace, YouTube, and the rest of today&#8217;s user-generated media are destroying our economy, our culture, and our values&#8217;.<br />
In the past, ad agencies came up with the work.<br />
Now, with Macs, some clients think they can do a better job.<br />
(What&#8217;s frightening is, once a in while, they do actually create better work.)</p>
<p>So, these days, it ain&#8217;t just selling an idea.<br />
It&#8217;s as much about convincing clients to leave the ads to agencies.<br />
Instead of D-I-Y or consultants.</p>
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		<title>By: rachel carroll</title>
		<link>http://www.cstadvertising.com/blog/2009/01/if-we-believe-in-selling-why-don%e2%80%99t-we-do-it/#comment-11418</link>
		<dc:creator>rachel carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cstadvertising.com/blog/?p=155#comment-11418</guid>
		<description>Ha ha. Ta for that reference Anca. Glad it's not just me. And what a sad story from you Vik. But good on you for keeping on asking the questions.  As Dave says, whether it's making ads, shoes, whatever, only 10% will be great , which means 90% won't be. I guess some people care more about being in the 10% than others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha. Ta for that reference Anca. Glad it&#8217;s not just me. And what a sad story from you Vik. But good on you for keeping on asking the questions.  As Dave says, whether it&#8217;s making ads, shoes, whatever, only 10% will be great , which means 90% won&#8217;t be. I guess some people care more about being in the 10% than others.</p>
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